How to Be a Better Business Negotiator, According to This Former FBI Hostage Negotiator When you've had to bargain with high-risk fugitives and former cartel members, you learn a thing or two about how to talk to people.

Chip Massey does not sound like an FBI hostage negotiator.

He is warm. Friendly. Easy with a laugh. The exact opposite of the grizzled, crime-fighting stereotype. And that, he says, is an asset — because when you negotiate anything, even in business, your first goal must be to build rapport.

"It's all about, 'How can I get the information that I need from somebody who might be reticent to do so?'" he says. "So the bonding and rapport thing is huge, and that's really what we maximized on in hostage negotiations. It was all about active listening."

After 22 years working for the FBI as a special agent and hostage negotiator, Massey retired and cofounded The Convincing Company, which helps people learn to be more persuasive.

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So, how can BIZ Experiencess improve their negotiation skills? In this interview, he explains a few important tactics, including:

• Forensic listening: The art of breaking down a conversation after it's happened.
• Due diligence: Researching what matters to the person you're talking to.
• Empathy: Meeting people where they are.

You say that, within the first 15 or 20 seconds of meeting you, someone's going to make a decision about whether or not they trust you. What should someone be doing in those first few seconds?

Your job is to communicate trust and value to that person, and that you are somebody worthy of that. And you can do that in real time. It takes training to do that, but you can absolutely do it.

For example: I was tasked to interview a former cartel enforcer, who was in prison. We were investigating a rival cartel, and we knew this guy had info that would be great for us. I was going in essentially empty-handed. I didn't have much to offer him. So he comes into the room, and he's sitting across from me. And he never once looked at me upon entering that room. He sits down and he picks a point over my right shoulder and just stares off.

I said to him — we'll call him Marco. I said, "Marco, listen, I can't do anything about your time. Your time is your time. You got eight murders on you." I said, "But what about this? I need some information. You have it. What if I improved your cell conditions? What if I could help you there? Would that be of interest to you?"

Nothing. No reaction. I said, "Well, listen, we know that you're living here right now, but your family is across the country. How about if we got you to a prison system closer to them for visitation purposes?" No reaction.

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Now I'm thinking about it, and I'm looking at this guy and how he came in, how he presented himself. I mean, he was meticulous. Not a hair was out of place. His jumpsuit, even though it's prison issue, it looks like it's pressed.

And he's sitting there and you could tell the way he's moving. He's meticulous about the way he conducts himself. And I thought about the investigation, the things that I had uncovered, and the way he went through it. He eliminated people. He killed people like it was a cost-benefit analysis. He was doing risk assessment and every move he made enhanced the value of the cartel and allowed them to expand its territory.

So in terms of that, his moves were really sharp for what he needed to do and accomplish. So I was thinking about that as I'm looking at this guy, and I said, "Listen, obviously you have nothing to say to us, and I'm sorry this is a waste of your time, but I just wanted to tell you that I've studied you and I've studied the way you moved and I know the hits that you made. And I have to say, respect. Because I know that each time you did it, you did it for a reason and to improve the coffers of your organization. So I just wanted to leave by saying that."

And as I was getting up, the dude changes his gaze. Looks at me. He goes, "Ask your questions."

And so what I knew from that point was that this is how he wanted to be viewed. He wanted to be seen as almost a business consultant, somebody with expertise in this field and value still to give. He knew his business and he wanted to be seen as such. This is what we call forensic listening. We're thinking, "All right, I'm looking at him. I'm looking at everything about this person. What are they trying to tell me about themselves? This guy's put together. Sharp, right?"

Other people want to be seen as likable. Maybe somebody wants to be seen as a hard case. And this is what we call the unstated narrative. That is the disconnect between what somebody actually believes about us and what they're going to say. We live in a world where we can't just say what we think. We shouldn't. We would never survive it. But in a business context, it is such a value. If I can get to that person's unstated narrative, maybe there's a reason why they're not buying from me. Maybe there's a reason why they're not going to pick up my idea. Well, if I can get there and I can figure out what that is and deal with it right here in an indirect way, address it, make them feel more comfortable, the doors open up.

There's such an interesting gulf between the question I asked you and the scenario that you responded with. I asked you about what to do in those first few seconds, and I know BIZ Experiencess will often just try to shove as much information into those few seconds as possible. They want to deliver things. But now as I was listening to you, I realize that when BIZ Experiencess do that, they are in broadcast mode. You're advocating being in receiving mode.

We teach this skillset, forensic listening, to startups at a business accelerator. These guys are trained to throw ideas out, to vomit it out, and hope some of it is acceptable. And it's exactly the wrong thing. How do we engage with a person on the level that they really need to hear it? You're going to be looking for things that you know about their background.

That's why due diligence is so important. Do your research on who you're going to be speaking to. You should know a lot about those people that you're about to meet with. You want to know, is there something that I can piece together from what I gathered that that would help me connect other things to them?

It gives people a comfort level. It's hugely flattering. People want to know that you spent some time understanding them, understanding what motivates them, what brings them about. And whenever we do that, we're building again that bonding and rapport. We're connecting. And when we connect with people on an emotional level, it's almost like a shortcut. It really takes out hours from the amount of time that you would spend trying to do it another way.

It's a human truth: The number one thing people want is to feel heard.

Exactly. I mean, there couldn't be a more powerful point. And it doesn't matter the context you're in. We are, as a race, running around and we're just praying that someone engages with us at a level that hears us. And so when you're able to do that, when you're able to pick up the signs, when you're able to see that person and engage with them at that level, it's like right off. You don't have to mince words, you don't have to do pleasantries.

I'll give you another quick story, Jason, if I may.

Please.

So we had this one arrest that we had to make in the Bronx some years ago. It was a high-risk fugitive. So when the FBI rolls out everything, it's a circus. But before all that hits, it's just you and the teams. So we went out. The guy was high risk, gang affiliation, weapons, a lot of violence in his background. So we go to his door, he's not home. Bad news for us.

So we're doing the neighborhood canvas, and we finally get a phone number. They're like, "Chip, you're a good BS-er, why don't you call the guy?" I'm like, "It's not BS, it's a science, but whatever."

So I call the guy, and here's the thing I'll do: If the line opens up, but nobody's saying anything, I let that sit for probably about 20 seconds. And I'm like, "Okay, so I have to say something to the guy." So what do you think I said? Or what would you say, if you were in my shoes? High-risk fugitive, lots of violence, about 23 years of age, and he's on the run.

I guess the first thing that I would do is I would try to explain who I was in a non-threatening way. So the first thing I might just say is, I just want to talk.

All right, you did better than I did. Okay? Because here's what I said. I said to the guy — call him Jeff — I said, "Hey Jeff, my name is Chip and I'm from the FBI, and I'm here to help." And I just let that sit. So what am I doing there? I'm letting my voice control that. I'm trying to show him that I'm using empathy. I'm trying to convey all these things to him to let him know it's okay to talk to me and I hear nothing.

So I wait again. I give it another 20 seconds or so and nothing. I've got to say something else. What do you think is the best thing to say now?

I guess I would try to say something to just prompt any kind of response? So I might just try to say something really innocuous, like how are you?

Okay. Okay. There we go. I said to him, "Jeff, how bad does your life suck right now?"

Oh, that's even better. That's much better.

Why are you saying that's better?

Because it's guiding. And because it does something that I've learned as an interviewer, which is to float a theory. Doesn't matter if the theory is right or wrong, but people respond to theories. One, it makes them feel heard. It's like it's saying, "I've listened to you. I understand something about you and I'm proposing something to you." And number two, the theory guides their answers. Instead of giving some kind of lame blanket answer, they are now responding more specifically.

Exactly. It's meeting people where they are. I had an understanding, a deep understanding about what his life is like as a fugitive. When you are on the run, it's chaos every day because you don't know where you're going to lay your head at night, you don't know who's going to drop a dime on you. You can't call your mom because we own the phones. You can't use your ATM card. We got that too. And your head is on swivel the entire time. And you're always worried about what if you have an encounter with the police. And they run you, and then it could turn violent and dangerous. And they know that.

So my job then was to make him feel like I understood it and to again, reinforce it in his world. Like, "Hey, I know how bad that is." Right?

There's a level of sympathy to it.

There is. And using empathy without judgment. I have to be able to engage with this guy. And I can't say, "Listen, dirtbag." Right? That's not going to be helpful. What I say to him is, "Hey, look, I know it's dangerous out there and I know you're wondering right now, are you going to survive the next day?"

He said nothing. I said, "Listen," and this is where I started with the emotional connection. I said, "I'm looking down the street and I see a pizza shop, and I'm wondering if you had got a good slice there. What'd you like?" And I let that hang nothing. And then I said, "And I'm looking at the telephone lines here, and I see a lot of sneakers wrapped around there, and I know that means something here, and I'm wondering if your shoes are up there, Jeff. And I'm wondering what happened that day?" Nothing.

So then I went right to it, and I said, "Hey, listen, I'm here today and I'm going to guarantee your safety. I know everything about you, Jeff. I've studied your case. I obviously know all about your neighborhood and who you're around. I'm going to be on this subway platform for the next 40 minutes. And when you come off that subway, I'm going to shake your hand and I'm going to guarantee you safety. And I'm going to take you through the whole process from soup to nuts, and I'm going to make sure you're okay today. And we're going to bring this all to an end. And I'll see you soon, Jeff. How's that sound?"

Nothing. And the phone goes dead.

It's not good news when you lose a fugitive, right? It's just not good. It's not a happy time. So what happens next is I'm waiting on that subway platform. Twenty minutes later, this guy comes rolling off the subway car, puts out his hands, says, "My name's Jeff. Let's get this over with."

Wow.

So this is the thing we always tell when we teach in corporate: Listen to somebody, and listen for that unstated narrative, and try to connect their world to your world, and know what's important to them, and understand that every word they say is a clue, and that it brings you closer to where you need to be with them. It's not about "How can I get the most value out of this person?" But rather, it's "What can I do together with this person and in a collaborative way and build something better?" So that's why it works, and why it's so successful, because it comes from understanding that other person's experience and what they're going through.